Readers’ Matzav: Playing With My Emotions in Shidduchim


shidduchimDear Matzav Editor,

I apologize for writing about shidduchim. I know all of you have probably had enough of the topic, but for people like me and our parents, it is a consuming topic and one that we suffer through every day, and it seems like this is the place where serious, quality shidduch-related discussion takes place.

My issue is with boys who lead girls to believe that they are interested in continuing dating or don’t know how to end a shidduch.

I just finished two such experiences. In the first, I went out with a boy a number of times. I probably would have continued going out, but he ended it. But he didn’t stam end it. He gave me a whole speech about how he so had a good time on the dates, and how he so might consider going out with me again at a later date, but right now he just doesn’t feel that it is going anywhere. He said he thinks I am a great person and I am really nice, ans yada, yada, yada.

Right after that disaster, I dated another boy. With this boy, I went out fewer times, but he really gave the impression that he was having a great time and that this might actually go somewhere. After the final date we had, he even said that he had a super time and was all jolly. Twenty minutes later, I got a phone call from the shadchan that he said no. He was dropping me like a hot potato after leading me to believe that it would probably continue.

So boys, two tips: If you are going to say no, say no. Don’t sugarcoat it. Don’t say how nice I am, and don’t make me believe that we might one day go out again.

And number two, if you know you won’t be going out again with me, don’t end the date having me believe otherwise. I would say that it might even be geneivas daas. Why do you have to play with my heart and my emotions?

A Girl in Crisis


  1. In defense of all those boys out there who have to go through this, (having dated over fifty girls before getting married) boys don’t like saying no just as much as girls don’t like hearing it!
    We feel bad and don’t want to hurt your feelings.
    True, this way might end up hurting the girl even more, but please understand how we feel (felt).

  2. If these boys would have dumped you in a straight forward manner you would complain that they were heartless and should have more tact. They sugarcoated things because they were trying to show some sensitivity.
    Although I do agree with you that they should not say that they would consider going out with you again at a later date. That’s just a plain lie to make them feel better about themselves.

  3. couldn’t of said it any better!!!! I went though the same thing!! I hope guys will learn somehting from this!

  4. Enough with this shidduce madness, its becoming very boring, sorry that you had a bad experience but this is the real world we live in, just to be even handed it happens in business too, each & everyday, either to me or someone else, this is reality.

    Also webistes are not the place for therapy, i am sure you could use some profeesional help after these bad experiences.

    i know the feeling been there & i learned how to over come these problems.

    can you imagine everytime a girl or boy gets dumpped they would air their feelings or emotions on the website ??

    just in defense of these immature boys, i am not trying to defend them at all. & they just dont have the strength or courage or for a better word the Chutzpah, to come out & say no,

    i am in the business world & many times i get cought between two people & i have to disappoint one of them, beleive you me its not easy. as i still have to deal with the one that i disappointed.

    Remember, would you rather have them boys be rough & disrespectful to you, however they should not be misleading you as that is totally wrong & i would put more blame on the parents, as they should give them some tips, however it looks like the famous saying, like father like sons, most likely the parents are not to much better.

    good luck to you & hope you are much closer to the real one now that you had two bad experiences, two down & one more to go. dont forget when you do become engaged let us all know thru this website. maybe invite us all to the engagement party.

  5. This could be a (clumsy) way of trying to keep the door open in case you’re both around in a few years and it comes up again.

  6. Girls do this all the time, too. Don’t pretend it’s all about the boys.

    I recently set up a couple that I know. They went out four times till the girl said no. Before the third date, the guy said he was really interested, and they seemed to be having a good time, but he wasn’t sure how the girl felt about him. On the fourth date, towards the end, he asked the girl how it was going on her end, and she said “Good!” So he goes home, all excited, and later that evening the girl tells me he’s WONDERFUL, SO NICE, SO SWEET, SO GOOD FOR HER FRIENDS, blah blah blah, “but I just don’t feel any chemistry.”

    It’s something both boys and girls do. So stop blaming the boys.

    P.S. I’m a woman, so don’t even go there…

  7. Why is it any worse ending it through the shadchan that it is setting up the next date that way? The way the system is set up – and we can argue from today to tomorrow whether or not it’s the right way to do things – there is no real way to say no on the date, unless things have progressed really far. If you won’t agree to meet a boy without a shadchan (and I’m not saying you should), you can’t expect to be told “no” without one either.

  8. “if you know you won’t be going out again with me, don’t end the date having me believe otherwise. I would say that it might even be geneivas daas.”

    Might be? How about definitely is!

    Let me cite a relevant maamar Chazal. Ossur lignov daato shel odom, afilu daato shel akum.

    Not a light matter.

  9. Sorry that you had to go through these emotional roller coasters, However you should know that is not only problem with the boys there are plenty of girls who do the same. The reason is that first of all they want to be menchelech by making the person feel good. Just imagine they woulld tell you on the date that your hashkofos are messed up, what a terrible person you are to be around, and some simillar things how would you feel? What would you have told the shadchan?? Yes it is sad when beeing dropped. Yes it does take a lot of emotions out of a person (sometimes even from the one that is ending it). But is something which has to be done and when is done why would/should one lower his middos and menchlichkeit by doing it in a cruel way??? The other reason could be that they really enjoyed and yes you’re a great person, but for unknown reasons they had to drop the shidduch. Being dropped is not easy, it makes a person feel unwanted, sometimes it lowers ones’ self steam, it is very painful but it has to be done because it is better to break earlier than to get engaged/married/kids/…and then break it.
    Hatzlocho on finding your bashert and as always I was told when I was dropped “you are special to many people don’t let somebody’s action depress you and get you down”

  10. GIC:

    As the father of several singles I feel your pain. But consider yourself lucky. Many girls don’t get more than one date because based on two hours in a lounge the bachur recognizes that “it didn’t click”. It seems more reasonable that a boy/girl can wait 4-6 dates before it has to click-like the previous doros successfully did.

  11. Even though we don’t know you, my heart goes out to your aching heart..we agree with you 1000 percent, both boys and girls have to be honest and straight foward..its definately ginevas daas..yes, its definately hurtful and extremly hard..but where are the Rabbonim and mechanchohs??and even more so, where are the parents??

  12. Let’s clarify a few issues here. Firstly, this is not an exclusively male problem. Some women behave exactly the same way. Secondly, I believe the first guy you described behaved perfectly appropriately. And BTW there are many, many people who married their spouses on their second, third or even fourth round. He was being perfectly honest with you though you didn’t like what he had to say. If the shidduch problem is called a crisis what you describe is a deep disappointment – not a disaster.

    As far as the second guys behavior, that is more suspect. But you might say that this guy was actually worse than the first guy as he provided no closure.

    Where are you in all this. Would you have married either of these guys if they asked you? Where they picking up on your feelings about the situation that you weren’t acting on or verbalizing?

    Best of Luck to You

  13. I wrote a post about this a while ago regarding the point that a guy should always make sure the girl has a good time – though in a pareve way as anonymous 3:02 PM suggested.

    The guy shouldn’t be a jerk, and shouldn’t go on the date in the first place if he knows he’s saying no to another date no matter what. That just doesn’t make sense! It’s a waste of time and energy if there is a foregone negative conclusion. The same goes for girls too.

    Everyone should have an open mind on each date to the possibility of going further, even if they have an inkling that things may not proceed any further. The date itself can be fine without necessarily giving off a strong impression that either dater absolutely wants another date. This is one of the pitfalls of dating that both guys and girls need to keep in mind: Until the relationship becomes more serious, which means that both daters have expressed a real interest in the other person and you’ve passed the “touch-and-go” semi-casual attitude of the first few dates, you can’t EXPECT anything. It’s nerve-wracking to think about a shidduch in that way, but it’s the truth. Nothing is ever really certain until the couple discusses their mutual attraction for the other person. Having that talk doesn’t guarantee anything either, but at that point, any possible conclusion of the shidduch should be discussed thoroughly in an open fashion.

  14. The problem is this generation is expecting hollywood type of performance from’s the reality ,the singles grow up in the proper segregated torahdig hadrochah all their lives up until dating age,and then we put them in situations where they have to communicate for the purpose of if they don’t express themselves so hollywood perfect,you need to take all this in to account and forgive and go on .hatzlachah

  15. “if you know you won’t be going out again with me, don’t end the date having me believe otherwise. I would say that it might even be geneivas daas.”

    Might be? How about definitely is!

    I am not a posek, but suggest one be asked before anyone comes to the conclusion that the boys did anything wrong. The young man may not deliberately mislead the girl; he probably did have a very nice time, although he decided that it was not a shidduch. Would she rather he’d been less pleasant? And the first young man was probably being honest when he said he’d reconsider it at a later date. I am sure he was sincere when describing her good qualities, and trying to reassure her there was nothing wrong.

    Unfortunately. there is no way to break off a shidduch without hurting someone’s feelings.

  16. as someone who has gone out with many girls before boruch hashem getting married, i would like to suggest that the boy can genuinely be having a great time on the date. there are many factors that can lead one to decide after he gets home that it may not be for him. there is more to being compatable than just enjoying someones company. these factors are applicable especially after a number of dates. there are many times that i was having a great time on dates and definitely got the impression that this is going in the right direction, getting back an answer from the shadchan that the other side does not want to continue. In fairness, they usually provided a specific reason that made sense, though i didnt agree with them. maybe the reason is one that the boy cannot express without hurting the girl, (no attraction physically, parents find out info that they are unhappy with once it starts getting serious and they end it). dont judge anyone until you have been in their shoes.

  17. Get rid of the shadchan and if you don’t want to go out again, tell her or him at the end of the date. And you, little beis yaakov girl, get over it . You were brainwashed into this system, so accept it and move on. What do you expect from these boys if when you all grew up they were never allowed to have a normal conversation with you?

  18. You’re a crybaby and i would reccommend to people NOT to go out without you.
    Just be dan l’kaf zchus that each one tried to say no the niceset way possible.

  19. All saying of yes and no should be done by the Shadchen.It is hard to tell someone no to their face which is why people sugarcoat their nos.(I once had an experience where neither the Shadchan nor the girl would take no for an answer.Both guilt triped me into going further and further into a shiduch I sensed there was something wrong with.Thankfully an external issue came up right before we got engaged that prevented us from doing so.Otherwise we would be in a miserable marriage now.People must learn to accept a no no matter how painful doing so is.)

  20. The solution is that the shadchan should communicate everything up until the day of the wedding, in fact the couple should probably never meet besides the halachically required one time, and even once they are married they should mediate all differences of opinion (e.g. what to have for dinner) through an intermediary.

    Or, they can be mature and responsible about it and realize that its not such a big deal, if you cant handle a guy dumping you maybe you are not ready to get married or leave your bedroom. I completely sympathize with your feelings, but it is unfair to blame the guy- he is probably trying to do the nice thing.

    And as for the second guy- maybe he wasnt sure, left the date, called his rebbi who told him to dump you, and promptly called the shadchan to ensure that you werent dragged along for 2 days before realizing that you were dumped.

  21. Its not a matter of handeling being “dumped”. Its a matter of Geneivas Daas- I just went out with a boy who after saying he had an amazing time, really liked me_ said No! A person dating shouln’t say things just because it sounds right- they should say what they mean-Don’t mislead a person- You can say I had a nice time -thank you! But don’t go all out and show that you are interested in furthering the relationship if your not!It’s not fair to have smooth dating and all of a sudden”a no” out of the blue saying that you didn’t have a nice time-when you sad the night before to your date that you had an “amazing time”. I agree with the author 100%.Boys in general( not all) are not so mature in this area they need hadracha from a parent/Rov/Rebbe- not to play with girls emotions -it is not fair! For those who are going to jump down my throat and say girls do it to-I say shame on those girls-however my experience with dating, having friends that are in the parsha, and having relatives who are shadchanim this problem is mainly in the boy’s ballpark! That is not to say that no girl has ever demonstrated this behavior!

    Bottom line: If you don’t want to continue with the shidduch just end it, if you are not sure get hadrachah from a parent, Rov,an expert in the field!It’s not fair to drag out dating-to pretend you like a person/want to continue dating them when in essense you don’t!
    May all those waiting for their basherts find their’s soon!

  22. ok, so next time a girl tells me on a date that she had a nice time, ill say “i didn’t”. I’m sure that won’t present an outrage. I feel for you that you were led on, but that was not the guys intention (hopefully).

    Also, it could be that he really did have an amazing time, but didn’t see it going anywhere, so when pushed for an answer by the shadchan he just made up an excuse because he figured it was nicer than the truth (e.g, she’s not pretty, she’s a size 24, her parents are freaks, etc)

  23. ToToungueincheek : You can say that you had a nice time-However don’t make it seem like you want to go out again if you don’t!

    The purpose of consulting with a Rav/Parent is so that a person won’t be led on!If the person is not for you why are you shlepping the dates out for 10 times.If you are not sure speak it over with a Parent/Rav/person with experience with these things!If the person is clearly not for you why are you going out and out and out? Because you are afraid that you might not get a person as pretty,rich ect as the next time?!

  24. I was talking about after 3 or 4 dates when you decide the person is clearly not for you. I agree that it is disgusting to go out 10 times when you know its not shayich. But when you leave a date happy, and then something strikes you as an issue, there is really no option but to end it. I’m not saying that all guys are angels and would never intentionally lead a girl on- to the contrary, i’m sure there are plenty who do it on a regular basis. But there are also plenty who are trying to make the best of a bad situation. I am trying to be dan likaf zechus on these stories. Obviously, if the guy was a complete jerk then yes, he is a jerk. not all guys are though.

    Sof kol sof, the system is flawed and leads to inevitable awkwardness and hurt on the part of both the boys and the girls. Most shidduchim end with at least one side unhappy. But until somebody comes up with a better idea, we’re stuck in it.

  25. To Chani,
    As the proverbial saying goes, “You made your bed and now you have to sleep in it”. When he said he had an amazing time and really likes you, you should have immediately said “Great! I’m free this coming Sunday night, what time can you pick me up?”. But you insist on playing the game and handing it over to a third party who probably knows neither of you. There’s no gneivas da’as in your case, because children have no da’as. You demand that an adult run your life, so like a good little girl, please play by the rules and stop complaining.

  26. wow, harsh way of putting it, even though i agree with you conceptually. I wouldnt blame any individual for the system’s flaws, or for being in a flawed system, as the options are kinda limited. Yes, i would prefer not to go through a shadchan and would love to meet a girl outside the “system” but unfortunately, since it has become the standard, it is very difficult to find a good normal girl (or boy, in Chanis case) outside the system Nobody would be happier than me if i could circumvent the system completely.

  27. To Shlomo Zalman: If I would have said ““Great! I’m free this coming Sunday night, what time can you pick me up?”, then I would have been told by the Shadchan its not Tzniyus,you were to foward… that is not how things are done! I don’t want to give myself a bad name! Now you know why there is a shidduch crisis/dating crisis! Toungeincheek hit it on the nail. To quote tounge and cheek-I would also “prefer to meet a boy outside the “system” but unfortunately, since it has become the standard, it is very difficult to find a good normal boy outside the system”.Shidduchim has become a game-a game of chess, -unfortunatley the chess pawns are people with feelings!

  28. Mir gebin crach un mer krigen crach. We give our licks and we take out licks. This is the nature of shidduchim and it will end iyh when you meet your bashert bikarov bikarov mamush 🙂

  29. I feel bad about leading girls on but I’m not comfortable saying no to people after one or two dates unless it went terrible.Should I stop going out?I’m married already but I feel guilty about the girls I went out with four or more times and then said no.But what should I have done?I don’t enjoy being indecisive either.


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