Can You Sue An Anti Vaxxer If You Contract The Measles?

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The debate over vaccinations raged this past month with an outbreak of the measles affecting Jewish communities in America and in Israel led to many questions about the halachos of not vaccinating a child. Turning to the secular judicial system, attorney Julia Shenkar, an expert on tort law, was asked about suing anti vaxxers.

Attorney Shenkar says such a claim, even if possible, is very complicated since it depends on a number of circumstantial factors that are difficult to prove. “It’s possible to sue if it’s possible to prove damage was done.

“In my opinion, one can try to sue parents whose children have not been vaccinated and infected other children, but this type of claim is a serious one, because there’s a lot to prove. Among other things, it’s necessary to prove a causal link between the outbreak of the disease and that child’s non-vaccination, and whether that child infected others or not.”

“I do not see any possibility of suing for damages,” Shankar concludes, noting that it is up to the legislature that as long as parents do not have to vaccinate, it is impossible to rely on legislation to sue those who did not. Here comes the ethical issue and the difficulty in granting medical treatment to those who are not interested in it. An issue that is still being discussed in the legal, ethical, and medical arena of Israel and the entire Western world.”

Read more at Arutz Sheva.

{Matzav.com}

45 COMMENTS

  1. For weeks and weeks daily dosages of vaccinations have been published on this site and yet NOT ONE vaxxer came forth with a logical explanation for vaccinating, besides stating the doctor said so, the pharmacists who make the vaccine say so, the rav said so, the rosh yeshiva said so, or Moshe Rabeinu said so, and then resort to screaming, bullying, attacking, being rude and nasty, cursing and calling you a rodef, a rotzeiach, chayav koras, chayav misah and chayav skilah and what not because they have no logical explanation.

    Is there one vaxxer who can give a logical explanation for anti-vaxxers why to vaccinate (without repeating the lie that it causes more deaths because the fact is the risk of serious complications or death from measles has always been overwhelmingly minimal. In fact, the study shows that measles deaths were virtually nonexistent prior to introduction of vaccine, as was confirmed by doctors and nurses who claim, “In all my years I never knew anyone or heard of anyone who died from this childhood disease as it was virtually unheard of in the U.S. for anyone to die from measles.” In 2012 almost 1,000 claims have been reported of injuries and deaths of the MMR vaccination while no deaths were reported for more than 10 years from natural measles infection. All anti-vaxxers are quite aware of the myth that people were dying left and right from measles.)

    SO, IS THERE ONE VAXXER WHO CAN GIVE A LOGICAL HONEST EXPLANATION TO ANTI-VAXXERS WHY TO VACCINATE when
    Vaccinating:
    – was found to have fatal risks that can cause autism, seizures, brain damage and other neurological disorders, food allergies and more side effects (most of us are sadly aware of at least 1 case of autism or bain damage caused by vaccination)
    – the vaccine itself contains live virus and can spread measles and trigger outbreaks
    – causes stunting the immune system, the antibody system, in general
    – the measles vaccine (MMR) only provides temporary and incomplete immunity and you’ve got to keep getting vaccinated every 5 years or every 2 years in order to keep your immune system active
    – as an adult getting measles would be far more severe which is why parents tried to get their child to contract measles as early as possible

    Natural Measles:
    – a young child, generally between the age of 2-8, would contract the measles, a mild childhood disease, and never again have to worry about contracting measles because they now have lifelong immunity to all forms of the disease.

    • Natural Measles:
      Not every child that gets measles experiences a mild case. Hence the development of the vaccine.

      It is entirely possible that a person can go through childhood without contracting the disease. He is now an adult who is vulnerable to a disease that is not so mild at that point and carries a much greater risk of complications.

      Even if the person had the measles as a child, but then required chemotherapy, lo oleinu, this will wipe out his entire immunity. It is as if he never had the measles. He now depends on herd immunity to prevent him from contracting the measles which carries far, far greater risks, possibly fatal, now that he is immunosuppresed. That herd immunity would not be in place.

      • Regarding your 2nd to last paragraph: The same holds true if he didn’t update his vaccination and is an adult as all these adult measles outbreaks these weeks.

        Regarding your last paragraph: The halachah in Bava Metzia 62:1 clearly states: Chayecha kodmin, life takes precedence over his life. You’re not obligated to risk YOUR child’s life with vaccination that have proven to have side effects. Period!

        • “You’re not obligated to risk YOUR child’s life with vaccination that have proven to have side effects”

          Even if the anti-vaxx argument was true (i.e. vaccines lead to autism), measles causes death (if you don’t make it through your infection), or susceptibility to other deadly diseases (such as, but not limited to, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis) by suppressing your immune system, also leading to death. You tell me, which is worse, autism or death? By your own logic, you should be obligated to vaccinate your child to prevent the deaths of others, death is a much harsher side affect than autism.

    • -I don’t know from where you are getting your information about vaccinations. There have been plenty of logical, reasonable explanations, especially on this website, showing why vaccinations are necessary.
      -Furthermore, it is patently false that no one died of the disease. Had the disease not been such a danger, the vaccination would not have been developed in the first place.
      -There has been no accredited study that has found to cause a link between MMR and autism. Wakefield’s study has been disproven again and again. Stop it already. I, for one, do not know of a single person who is autistic or suffered brain damage as a result of vaccinations. Bring your proof!
      -The measles vaccine does not provide temporary immunity. It is given in two doses, and most certainly provide 97% – 100% immunity. It does not have to be administered every 2 – 5 years.
      – It is to help prevent an unvaccinated adult from contracting measles that everyone should be immunized. Not everyone gets the disease as a child.

      • #1 Had you come across any logical, reasonable explanations especially on this website, showing why vaccinations are necessary, you’d have posted it now.
        #2 Eli mentioned what he heard from doctors and nurses. I guess you know better
        #3 Read: Senior Government Scientist Breaks 13 Years’ Silence on Centers for Disease Control (CDC) Vaccine-Autism Fraud
        #4 If adults are getting the measles now it’s obviously they provide only temporary immunity.
        #5 Why should there be unvaccinated adults that everyone should suffer the consequence and ch”v get children zombies? – chayecho kodmin.

    • You foolishly state that there is no claim or proof that vaccination is safe. Well, you outta luck buddy, here is the statement from the CDC themselves.

      https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/mmr-vaccine.html

      On the other hand, anti-vaxxers scream and TYPE IN CAPS ALL THEIR FOOLISH CLAIMS THINKING THAT PEOPLE WILL FALL FOR THEIR FOLLIES. Not one shred of evidence is presented other than saying that before vaccinations there was no deaths from measles, and oh wait, some former doctor in Kalamazoo said so himself!

      May I remind you all, that the life expectancy before vaccinations was far less than it is today. People died from complications that could have been easily remedied had they had the medicine and vaccinations there are readily available today.

      Don’t forget the Black Plague that wiped out 3/4 of Europe!!!

      I see that the anti-vaxxers are not part of a scientific study group, rather, they are part of a movement much like the Bolsheviks, Communism, or even Radical Islam that blindly follows some wacky conspiracy theory that they hold fat dearer than the Heiligeh Torah.

      To all the anti-vaxxers: I have seen your moral concerns regarding vaccinations. Now, where are your Yiddishe morals when the Poiskim, Rabbanim, and Dayanim Pasken that we should be vaccinated?????

      • Is this the same CDC that approved Thalidomide for pregnant women? Is this the same CDC that cannot be sued in a regular court regarding vaccines, but for everything else they could be sued? Oh no, It’s the CDD! Gasp!

        Japan outlawed the MMR vaccine (fact). Therefore Japan is now extinct.

      • And here is another article from the CDC:
        Senior Government Scientist Breaks 13 Years’ Silence on Centers for Disease Control Vaccine-Autism Fraud

        “May I remind you all, that the life expectancy before vaccinations was far less than it is today.” Oh really? People who got the measles after WWII are b”H still alive today.

        “I see that the anti-vaxxers are not part of a scientific study group” The same scientific group that can’t figure out which gender from the 57 genders you are?

        Your last 2 paragraphs shows that Eli is literally a genius. Nobody refuted him yet.

        • As the old adage goes:

          “You can fool some people all the time, all the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time”

          Are you saying that we are being fooled and only after 13 years someone “broke the silence???”

          You feel like a genius, only you are being pulled along and duped by the anti-vaxxers. It’s not that it’s dangerous, its just that you are afraid of the unknown.

          Just look up Dr. David Ayoub, a ant-vaxxer doctor. You’ll get a better insight on how they are pulling wool over your eyes.

      • Is this the same CDC that approved Thalidomide for pregnant women? Is this the same CDC that cannot be sued in a regular court regarding vaccines, but for everything else they could be sued? Oh no, It’s the CDD! Gasp!

        Japan outlawed the MMR vaccine (fact). Therefore Japan is now extinct.

        • Kev,

          If you recall, Thalidomide was immediately recalled. Are you still living in the ’70s?

          If vaccines were as dangerous as Thalidomide, they would have recalled all vaccines as well.

          • Thalidomide was recalled after 12 years and after severely injuring up to 100,000 people. I learn from the 70’s, and the bulk of todays vaccines are from the pre 70s era. Besides, so the 70s’s don’t count? Are you implying that 50 year old medicine doesn’t matter? Because today”s children will be alive in 50 years from now.

            ‘If vaccines were as dangerous as Thalidomide, they would have recalled all vaccines as well”

            So here is a history lesson for you, Thalidomide was stopped because of lawsuits in regular court, and the pharmaceutical industry was held accountable. What with vaccines, we can not sue them in court, and pharma never has to pay a penny for all it’s injuries it is causing with vaccines. Yes Sad, but true. We cannot sue vaccine makers in regular court. This should be alarming to anyone, but vaxxers don’t think for themselves.

    • Eli, don’t hold your breath. If you haven’t heard any “logical explanation” throughout the vaccination weeks, don’t expect one now or ever. It’s a chok velo yaavor which they cannot explain.

  2. Can one sue the bartender who gave the driver some drinks before he went out and killed some people due to his drunk driving? Hiw does this differ?

    • Depending on the circumstances, yes, sometimes the bartender and bar can be sued. Not sure what point you’re trying to make with this question, since your analogy should be to the actual drunk who does the damage.

  3. Can we sue the DMV for giving out licenses that to driver’s that eventually kill someone? Can we sue car manufacturers for same? And how about developers that build tall buildings that lead to suicide jumpers. What about the one that made the world, can we sue him too?

  4. “(most of us are sadly aware of at least 1 case of autism or bain damage caused by vaccination)”

    Maybe I’m an anomaly but I do not know a single person. I also bet that most of the people who know such a person are referring to the same person.

  5. “the measles vaccine (MMR) only provides temporary and incomplete immunity and you’ve got to keep getting vaccinated every 5 years or every 2 years in order to keep your immune system active”

    Once a person gets both doses, they are usually covered for life.

  6. “was found to have fatal risks that can cause autism, seizures, brain damage and other neurological disorders, food allergies and more side effects ”

    How common are these side effects.

  7. “a mild childhood disease”

    If it’s a mild childhood disease then why have a few of the kids ended up in the hospital and why have there been deaths?

  8. Again: look up the CDC:
    Measles can be dangerous, especially for babies and young children. From 2001-2013, 28% of children younger than 5 years old who had measles had to be treated in the hospital.
    For some children, measles can lead to:
    Pneumonia (a serious lung infection)
    Lifelong brain damage, Deafness, Death

    • A mother who had the measles has lifetime immunity for herself and her newborn baby. According to the first post, “In fact, the study shows that measles deaths were virtually nonexistent prior to introduction of vaccine, as was confirmed by doctors and nurses who claim, “In all my years I never knew anyone or heard of anyone who died from this childhood disease as it was virtually unheard of in the U.S. for anyone to die from measles.” In 2012 almost 1,000 claims have been reported of injuries and deaths of the MMR vaccination while no deaths were reported for more than 10 years from natural measles infection. “

  9. Anti-vaxxers who have the measles CANNOT infect those who were vaccinated with measles, UNLESS s/he was not up to date with their vaccination. The vaccination is NOT a lifetime immunity. It has to be repeated every 2 or 3 years for life. So blame yourselves if you get the measles.

    If anti-vaxxers who have the measles can infect those who were vaccinated with measles, then the vaccination toyg auf kapoross and the only thing the vaccination does is make your child into a zombie.

    • You are wrong about having to vaccinate every 2 -3 years. That’s what they teach you in anti-vaxxer school.

      Once you vaccinate, you are immune for life. My children and I have vaccinated and we never had to do it again.

      • How many years ago? If you’re talking about more than a certain number of years one is immune for, let’s see what happens if you or your children have close contact with anyone who has the measles. Or are you too scared to try it?

        Can you explain how an adult who got the vaccinations twice should contract it again?

  10. As Usual! The Pro vaxxers are drinking in the information from the CDC. The CDC is the organization that makes billions of dollars off these products. Please pro vaxxers, we are still waiting for science to be brought from your side, but not the science that the moneymakers of the vaccines are giving us.
    Lifelong brain damage and deafness can be a side effect of the actual vaccine as written in the insert of the MMR. There have been many deaths from the actual measles vaccine as stated by Dr. Susan Humphries.

    • To date, I have never heard of an anti-vaxxer agreeing to any proof you present to them. ANY proof you might bring is either from a dubious source, or from the back pocket of big pharma.

      On the other hand, the proofs brought forth from the ant-vaxxer groups are from the same sources that allege government cover-ups from Area-51 regarding aliens on this planet and from people who swear that there never was a moon landing.

      In truth, anti-vaxxers prescribe to some Hollywood inspired conspiracy in order to produce fantastic movies that keep on bringing revenue to themselves!

    • I agree. The Dolphins throwing in the towel for the season should concern every normal American. Adam Gase has got to go. They ended their last game with two lame 3 & outs. No effort. No heart. They were happy to just mail it in. The Colts scored 13 straight unanswered points to win the game. What a disgrace. The entire country should be ashamed of the Dolphins.

  11. To: MM, BrooklynTransplant, for money
    It’s amazing how you guys can be so naive. Let me open your eyes a teeny bit. Google cdc whistleblower and you’ll be in for a nice surprise.

    • Nice surprise.

      Now I have one for you.

      Google the following:

      1) September 11, 2001
      2) The Kennedy Assassination
      4) Area 51
      5) NASA Fake Moon Landing

      The list goes on. Talk about naivety!

  12. i and all my family and extended family are all up to date on all our vaccinations B”H . nobody i know has ever had any ill side effects whatsoever from getting them , nor have they gotten any of the illnesses that they are now immune to . I am very confident that doing the same for my children is the best thing for them. my understanding is that the rabbonim and frum medical community all say we should . I really dont understand why anyone would not vaccinate. asking for a logical reason to vaccinate to me is like asking for a logical reason to wear a coat when its cold outside. it is scary to me that there are people that can believe with such conviction that something is evil to the extent that they are willing to put their health and well being as well as of their children on the line, when my own two eyes and personal experience tell me is good. that is why anti vaxxers scare me. it seems downright illogical to me . not because i did research but just from my own experience. i feel like they are telling me that it is dangerous to stop at a red light. it is honestly SCARY. and somewhat creepy

  13. Scared –
    Being concerned and asking questions is the first step in scientific inquiry so good for you! And trusting your own experiences (empiricism) is a requirement of science. That being said, can I share some of my own experiences with you? My first dialogue with my oldest child’s pediatrician about my concerns with vaccines, having worked with children with developmental disabilities for a number of years, was about the ingredients in the MMR. My pediatrician’s response: currently in England studies are being conducted to try and decrease the amount of mercury in the vaccine. My response: Huh? And in the interim it’s ok to continue to vaccinate children including my child with unsafe vaccines? My point is that you are responsible for your child’s health and you are your child’s best advocate. For many years my approach was Shev V‘al Taasah. My children have had: mumps measles pertussis chicken pox, with no complications or lasting effects, B”H. Was it pleasant? No. Do I wish there is a solution with no risks involved? Of course. But as a mother of 9 children kn”h and a Ph.D. in experimental psychology, I cannot ignore the lack of experimental research (controlled clinical trials) that characterizes the whole vaccine debate. So Wakefield didn’t demonstrate a link between the MMR and autism but NO research currently rules out this link. We need less nonexperimental research and rhetoric, and more controlled studies. I’m not creepy, just concerned. I love my children and want them to be healthy. Anyone who claims that the increase in the autism rate is a function of more precise diagnosis knows very little about the field. As the rates of developmental disabilities and chronic childhood diseases continue to increase we need to figure out why. Examining the short and long term effects of injecting our children with multiple doses of neurotoxins, known carcinogens, etc. (read the vaccine inserts for ingredients and potential side effects) is a good first step.

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